Recently I had a chance to interview Pete Brady. Pete is the founder of $1 Million Liquid, a mentoring program for mortgage professionals who want to lend their own money to achieve returns in excess of 28% tax-free. Pete is a marketing master, and that’s why I got him on the call today. You can learn more about Pete at 1MillionLiquid.com.
Pete is one of the smartest marketers I know… I’ve been in a mastermind group with Pete for a while now, and when Pete shares… I listen.
In this post Pete’s going to talk about all kinds of direct mail and direct marketing and stuff that you can use in your personal training business.
If you prefer to listen to an audio of this interview, just click here
Pete, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and your story?
I’m originally a financial services professional, and I started in the business after I got out of five years and UCSB in Santa Barbara in ’86, and sold commodities on the telephone for about three years, and then insurance and securities; so a lot of varied backgrounds in personal financial services. And then I got into the mortgage business in ’92, when rates started to drop pretty radically from about 11% to less than 7%. That sucked a lot of people into the business, who ultimately got out pretty quickly. But I stayed in it and did the same thing that most mortgage brokers do out there. They get a business card and start knocking on doors and beating bushes to get business.
I did it the hard way; just like everybody else, and then I discovered direct response advertising, and thank goodness, because it really made my world a whole lot easier. As opposed to picking up the telephone and calling people and hassling them, I created compelling message that I could deliver, primarily through direct mail, and started to have more and more success with writing sales letters and intriguing postcards and things like that.
And then what happened to me one day, is I work with clients who’ve had credit issues, especially bankruptcies. One of my clients needed some money, essentially, and the transaction that we had put together for this client didn’t satisfy all their needs — it wasn’t possible to satisfy all their needs — and they were struggling. They had a family of five kids, seven altogether, and they needed a car. So I actually lent them money out of my own pocket — and it was a real estate loan, a second mortgage, my pocket to theirs — for them to buy a used SUV. It really made their whole world. It was a huge pain reliever for them, and a major “Aha!” moment for me.
Since then, I’ve been lending money out of my own pocket to clients for a variety of reasons that have — that transaction, my pocket to theirs, has been really beneficial to them, and ultimately multiplied transaction volume and income for myself. And I can get more into private lending as it relates to our conversation. But this conversation’s more about marketing and direct marketing/direct mail.
But as I launched that business-within-a-business, I realized that the market that I needed to approach was relatively specific, and I had to keep creating messages to penetrate that market and get response in that market to keep fueling my private lending business and my institutional mortgage brokering business. As I learned more and more about direct response advertising and primarily direct mail, I realized that there were just so many moving parts to it, and that the harder you worked at it, the greater results that you could achieve.
From the first standpoint, the harder you work at it, the harder it is to get done, and that eliminates a lot of competition right there. If you put together marketing campaigns and multi-step campaigns and pieces that are unique because you want unique and exceptional results, well, you’re already falling into the 80/20 rule right there, because 80% of the people are just lazy and won’t do anything. So immediately you’re in the top 20%. And then if you really push that up several notches, you become in really the top four or five percent of your business, because you’re designing campaigns that are creating a message that’s reaching a hungry market in an emotional way. It’s really driving them to respond to exactly what it is that you’re offering. More importantly, you’re attracting the type of clients and customers that you want; that behave the way that you want them to behave; that fit your perfect client profile. And I could go on and on and on about the different ways to do that. Perhaps, we’ll examine that.
As it relates to personal fitness, I would imagine that certainly the people that I know that are businesspeople are really demanding when it comes to personal trainers. They’re looking for something specific. I imagine that for each person who’s limited on time and want certain fitness goals met, there’s probably a set of different fitness criteria. One guy is all about time and efficiency and the next guy is really about feeling good and looking good and kind of bulk; maybe there’s a different way to train that person. So that requires a different message and a lot of consideration on where to find that particular prospect. So the list could be really important, and we can talk about ways to acquire that kind of list.
For someone looking to market a personal training business how do suggest they go about getting a list? Can you explain a little bit about what a list is?
When you’re designing marketing pieces — and we’ll keep the subject matter on the subject of direct mail, so to speak, as opposed to Internet advertising or other media like radio or TV — you’re going to want to do some homework and some research about who your target market is.
Let’s say that you’re looking for an individual — let’s just pick males, because I’m a guy and I can think like a guy, for a moment. Let’s pick my demographic. What do they call them, the 22-38? I’m not the Gen X guy. I’m the last bit of the Baby Boomers. I’m the guy who’s 40-something to maybe 55. And I’m the guy who’s above average income, whatever that might be in Orange County — the average income here is quite a bit higher than in a lot of parts of the country — so let’s say that you’re looking for top tier income people, ages 40-55. And in a lot of instances, you’re going to find people with money and perhaps motivated priorities who are homeowners.
So when you’re taking these selections on a list, list brokers — and I’m not going to make a recommendation, but there’s a lot of companies out there; I’ve used InfoUSA. They’ve got giant databases of businesses, of consumers, and it’s easy to dissect it by income, by age bracket, by sex. And then if you want to get really creative, you might try and rent lists in the fitness profession of areas that you found to be productive. Maybe people who are subscribing to fitness magazines, or maybe people who have bought nutritional products, or even specific nutritional products.
As you figure out who your perfect prospect is and design that profile, you can actually mix and match lists. It takes time and effort; good marketing, of course, does take time and effort. But what you get as a result of maybe an initial profile and then another list of a different type of profile, and then merge those together and take an intersection of that list; what you get is this incredibly ripe, productive target list. Then the rest is about message and medium. But that list and that target — it is the most critical, most important aspect of your marketing. If you’ve got a great list, you can have a crappy offer and a mediocre product and really take it to the moon.
Do you buy the list, or do you own the list? Do they make you rent it or buy it?
You typically rent it, and there’s a different ways to rent it. You might rent it for a single use. You might rent it for a multiple use, which is just slightly more expensive. You might rent it for an unlimited use, which would be just slightly more expensive than that. List brokers are always going to actually rent you the list, and that’s common and it’s totally acceptable. Depending on whether you’re going to keep hammering this list over and over, you decide whether you want unlimited use or just a single use.
Can you explain the difference between a compiled list and a response list?
A compiled list is going to be mixed and matched by all those “selects” that I described; particular age group and income group and that kind of stuff. But a response list — now, these are people that have actually responded in the past to different kinds of offers, and list brokers track all this kind of stuff. It’s a more expensive list, but you find a particular type of people that are responsive to direct mail.
There’s certain sectors of the public out there that are just kind of bricks, and they won’t respond to anything. And there is certainly 5 percent of just about any highly targeted list is what we call hyper-responsive, and those tend to be your active buyers that will buy just about anything.
So a personal trainer, he has his list of a few thousand names here that he wants to target. Now, what would be the next step?
Decide how he wants to reach these people. If we’re talking about names and addresses of a particular selected profile mixed and matched, certainly at that point we’re selecting direct mail as our medium.
So we’ve got our market and now we’ve got our medium, and now we need our message. All three we call that a message-to-market match, or message-to-media-to-market match. There’s a variety of different ways to do this. Of course, if you open up your mailbox, you get all sorts of stuff in it.
But the bottom line is once you’ve got a ripe list, now you’re not going to get anywhere by creating this terrific message unless you get the message read. So the next step is really about getting it read, and how to go about doing that. In a lot of the circles that Chris and I are exposed to — let’s go to Direct Mail 101. Bulk, standard, presort delivery is always going to be thrown into the trash, primarily because we’re all way too busy. We only want to read stuff that’s from our parents or our best friends and things that are meaningful, and we’ve got to open up our bills. So everything else is just tossed into the trash can.
So if you’re using first class postage and hand-addressed envelopes — often, we call it “blind”, with no return address, the chances of getting a piece in someone’s hands and then that envelope actually torn open to where now you’ve got a message in someone’s hands and you’ve got about 10 seconds to get their attention, that’s one way to approach it. So, away from bulk mail, to first class postage; hand-addressed; no return address; and you can work different types of envelopes or different types of packaging. We can talk more about that. But that’s the first — Marketing 101. It’s got to get read. It’s got to get in their hands.
Other ways to go about this are what we call dimensional mail, or lumpy mail. Imagine if you got a whole stack of mail and you got all these postcards that are sitting there, and they’re tiny little black and white postcards and they don’t really grab your attention in that one second that it’s in your hand. Well, that gets tossed. Bills go to one side, and then maybe you’ve got all this other stuff that isn’t hand addressed mail and bills, and it’s got about three seconds to go from your thumb and your first finger before it hits the trash.
Now, let’s say it’s in an envelope and that envelope’s about five-eights/three-quarters of an inch thick with something kind of big and sharp and lumpy in the middle. People are going to go, “Hey.” It piques their curiosity. It stops them for the moment, dwelling on that. Everybody’s curious at heart – inherently. So if you put little bags of sugar in a particular piece, and then you open it up and all the little bags of sugar fall out and they got a little letter that says, “How sweet it is to hear from –“, well, you’ve kind of got their attention. It’s really different.
The one biggest mistake that you can make in direct mail and direct marketing is being boring. So start becoming a student of what’s actually in your mailbox, and you’ll realize that literally 98 percent, or at least the first 80 percent of what’s in your mailbox is what I call “me-too marketing.” That’s the same old junk that everybody sends out that talks about how great their company, and you could care less because it has no particular compelling interest to you at that moment.
Other ways to creatively grab people’s attention are you might mail something in a round tube or in a little trashcan. There’s just so many ways to put something in the mailbox. You might see people mail out literally barf bags, with stuff in the barf bag, and saying, “Oh, are you sick about –” whatever the message, and, “What on earth is this? I got a barf bag in the mail?” So it really captures their attention, creates curiosity, and you get past that first three to ten seconds of that piece being in their hands.
Now this might be just totally off-the-wall and way beyond the scope of thinking for someone who is actually trying to get a new customer in terms of personal fitness, but as I understand it, if you’ve got a good client in personal fitness, that person might be worth $2500; maybe as much $3000 to $5000 over the lifetime of their experience with you as a trainer. You can afford to get real creative and send something weird in the mail; wouldn’t you agree?
Yeah, definitely. So you something lumpy in the mail; some kind of grabber. How is it to always tie that into the message of the actual piece that you’re sending?
It’s critical. I won’t begin to talk a whole lot about copy writing, but think about it for a minute. Put yourself in the position of the person that’s actually opening their mail. Let’s go back to the barf bag for a minute. You ever gotten a barf bag in the mail? No. So you get one, and you’re like, “Oh my god. What in god’s name is this thing?” And you look at it — and it may have something printed on the outside. They’re going to want to open it because it’s so different. And as you open it, first of all, there’s a preconceived notion about something. There’s some sort of top-of-mind consciousness or conversation that’s beginning to go on in this prospect’s mind about that very brief experience that they’re having. So you want to enter, so to speak, that conversation that’s happening in the prospect’s mind. So the headline or the grabber is congruent with piece. Then you have congruency in their experience and their consciousness.
So if they’re opening a barf bag and your message says, “Aren’t you absolutely sick when you look in the mirror,” I mean, if you’re using a beat-them-over-the-head type of copy, “Aren’t you absolutely sick when you look in the mirror about how fat you are after the holiday season?” And you send this thing out in January. They’re going, “God, you’re right. I’m a porker. I looked in the mirror this morning; it was ugly.” So there’s an attention-getter and a headline, and then you’re going to go into your lead copy and do what you do to create the right message that’s going to compel them to them listen and respond to the offer.
So there’s a personal trainer who wants to get into some direct response advertising, some direct mail. Any tips on helping him get his first piece? Where can you go to maybe get some help or learn how to do this? Should he hire out a copy writer, or maybe swipe something that’s working somewhere else? Any tips on that?
Jim Rome once said, “Some people have big TVs, other people have big libraries. Go to the library and look for stuff from John Carlton, Gary Halpert, Dan Kennedy, or just look under the subject “advertising.” Victor Schwab has a great book, How to Write A Great Advertisement; super, super book. The fundamentals of this stuff were really created from the mail order business early on in the 20th century, in the ’20s and ’30s and ’40s and ’50, when consumerism and leisure products in the post-industrial era became all about what the consumer wants and how to get it to them.
All of these resources are going to teach you the fundamentals. Real quickly, I gave you the initial science. You’ve got to get it read. So beyond direct mail and getting it into their hands and getting it open and getting it read, you’ve got to have a headline. You’ve got to have something that’s going to grab your attention. Second thing is some lead copy that draws them in and is specific to their problem or your biggest benefit; your value proposition of your particular product. So it’s drawing them in, and it’s personal to them.
And then, about your story, and what is it that you exist and this product exists. And then, your offer. And of course, you’ve got to have a very, very compelling offer. I’ll tell you, when you’ve got a great list and a very compelling offer, you’re going to get some big results. That’s step number four: the compelling offer. Then you have to have what we call a “call to action.” That is a specific direction of what to tell these people, or what you want these people to do. There’s all sorts of different ways to get them to respond; pick up the telephone, mail something in, go to a website. The more response mediums you have, typically, the more response you’re going to get from your piece, because people respond in different ways. They’re inclined to go to the Internet or they’re inclined to go to the telephone or they’re inclined to fill out a little card and send it in. That’s step number five.
And then you’re going to want a reason for them to act now — not tomorrow. If there’s no reason for them to act immediately, you lose a lot of sales. You have to compel them and motivate them now. You can do that with premiums, like an extra little free bonus gift. The banks used to give away toasters because they wanted you to open an account now; old method. Or a limited supply of something, if maybe you’re giving away something. An expiration date; or if you’re one of the first 37 respondents of this piece; you pick your own number. So premiums, expiration dates, limited supply. That would step number six.
Step number seven would always be a P.S. or a series of P.S. restating your best benefits or your calls to action. A lot of times, people will see the headline and they’ll say, “That’s great. Wow, I’m kind of intrigued, but what’s it all about?” And they go right to the bottom, and the P.S. will drag them back in to go to the top. And we can talk about double readership paths and subheadlines and all that someday. Those are the typical fundamentals that you’ll find in a lot of these books by these great copywriters. You can find it all in the library, or go online and you’ll find resources there. But if you like this kind of stuff and you get into it, you’ll want to develop yourself a library of resources to utilize.
And then, open your mailbox. You’ll start to notice the difference between the good stuff and the bad stuff. Keep the good stuff and put it in a file. We call that a “swipe file.” You’re swiping other people’s ideas.
How important is tracking or testing, and how can a trainer do that?
Boy, I’m glad you asked. That’s all of it. Let me give you an example.
You’ll find great sales trainers out there; great businessmen, great leaders of huge companies in our economy say that they learn more from their failures than they did their successes. They actually failed more times than they won. And they attribute to their success or their formula was to get back on the horse and try again. That’s really the essence of direct response advertising, especially as it pertains to direct mail.
I’ve had million-dollar winners, silly little sales letters that have brought my company over $1 million in revenue, but not without some failures before, and especially afterwards. It’s actually important to fail in small amounts so you can figure out what works and then capitalize on your success. So let me give you a simple example.
As it pertains to fitness professionals and small budgets, if you’re going to mail something out, I really wouldn’t recommend anything under 1000; maybe as little as 500. But if you mail 100 pieces, you’re really not going to get any cross-section of results to determine whether you’re successful or not. So you might mail out 1000 of one specific idea; one specific piece to your selected list, and it fails. And then try something 90 degrees different, and it wins and you get some success. Now with that limited amount of success, you take a similar sized list and you divide the list, or maybe even double the list, and you take that little winner and you call that your control piece. And then you’re going to adjust it and try something different.
So you’ve got your control piece — we might call that Piece A, and then another piece that we call Piece B. What you’re trying to do is improve on your results with Piece B. So you’re going to mail them both, same timing, same type of list. So everything is pretty much the same except one major difference. It might be the headline; it might be the P.S.; it might be the envelope; it might be the color of the paper. But you’ll adjust only one, and one at a time — one variable. So now you can see, “All right, I’ve adjusted one variable. It worked better, or it didn’t work as well.” If it works better, “Aha! There’s my new control piece.” And you keep improving it with what we call split testing methodology as time goes on.
So if you’re trying something brand new, you’re going to try a small list, a small test; not put 100,000 pieces in the mail, or 10,000 or 5,000; little runs, little blocks of maybe 1000. No less than 500; you just won’t get enough results with that small a test. And then you’ll capitalize on your winners and then split test for improvements.
How can trainers track the results when they’re doing a test so they know which ads polled which results? What are some different ways they could track that?
Great question. It’s absolutely mandatory that they do that. And really, the first thing that they need to do is allocate a little bit of time during their week and their month to actually work on their business, and not in their business. As I found in the eight years that I’ve been sending out mail, the biggest showstopper for me was actually allocating some time to track the results.
I’ll tell you about the techniques here in a minute, but your first big one is to just spend some time each week or each month and block it out to work on your business, not in your business; become a marketer, not a personal trainer for that piece of time when you work on your business.
The next thing that you do is if you’re looking for telephone results, there are a number of what we call interactive voice response 800 numbers out there, where in my business or my few businesses, I’ll have different extension numbers on an 800 number. So it might (800) dah-dah-dah, extension 101, or extension 501, or extenstion 901. So then the respondent will enter in a different extension, and then that extension gets recorded; when they’re dialing, that extension gets recorded in the piece of technology for later retrieval, and then compile your response statistics. You could do the same thing with different URLs. It’s so easy to go out there with GoDaddy or 1and1 and get a different URL and point that URL to your website and then start seeing how many hits you get on that URL. You might, if you’re doing a piece that’s going to come back in the mail, you just put a little code that’s different on each piece, so you can see you got 15 back on one and 6 back on the other. So code it somehow so can compile those statistics in the time that you’re working on your business and not in it.
Tell us about tear sheets and advertorials.
Big subject. Let’s start with advertorials. Although I have a little more experience in tear sheets, advertorials have always been kind of fascinating to me. You see advertorials in the newspaper, and the advertorial isn’t an article. It’s an advertisement that is masked as an article. So you might open the paper and you see what looks to be an article with a captivating headline that grabs your attention. If you’re a prospect for the personal training business, it might say — if ran this on January 7th on Sunday — I guess people are always making New Year’s resolutions because they got too fat over the holidays; it always happens to me — and here’s this six-column article that talks all about a specific scenario or a person who had this particular problem, and you identify with that person and their problem because you have the same kind of problem.
It talks about solutions and how maybe a particular personal trainer provided these solutions and what were the benefits of those solutions? Did this person feel more energetic or get more dates when they’re single, or have more success in business meetings because they felt that much more confident? And then, a response mechanism at the bottom. So opposed to just kind of an ad, as opposed to the bad advertisers out there that say, “Hi, I’m great. I’m ABC company. Call me because I offer this product.” And they absolutely waste their money. You have a captivating story that identifies the problem and then stirs up the problem a little bit, and then demonstrates the benefits and the solutions and gives you a call to action. You see advertorials more in print media; magazines and newspapers.
Now, tear sheets have actually been around for a long time, and the nifty thing about a tear sheet — first, let me describe what it is and then its usage. There’s kind of a couple different ways to use it. The tear sheet either looks exactly like a newspaper article or a magazine article and is designed to not mislead, but present itself as an actual newspaper or magazine article written by an author, produced in a publication, whether it be a real publication or something that’s hypothetical. When the piece is in your hands, it looks like it was torn – hence the name, tear sheet — out of the magazine or the newspaper.
So for instance, you’ve got a magazine in your hand and you take the right side of it and you tear it out, it’s kind of perforated on the left side. Hence, the tear sheet. So you would take a piece that has a hypothetical periodical to it, and there’s just so many darn magazines and newspapers across the country and around the world these days. You could call it practically anything, and if it’s in someone’s hands, they have kind of what they call a “suspended disbelief.” They’re more inclined to buy into this being a real article than it absolutely being a fabrication, if it is a message that’s hitting their market, or captivating them and talking to them; like if it’s something that they’re really interested in that particular moment. So that’s it when it’s in your hands. Now let’s talk about how it gets into your hands, and what about it is magical.
This piece gets designed and created by intensive copy and artists. The artists are going to make it look like a magazine or a newspaper, and the copy writers are going to give it all the components of direct response copy writing. So now you’ve got the actual piece. So what do we do with the piece? Well, we print on mass, say 1000 or 5000 or 100,000 or whatever. Then we’re going to put the tear sheet into an envelope that is more likely to get opened.
And probably the most likely envelopes to get open are something from your best friend or from your mom that looks like a birthday card or a little note; maybe you haven’t talked to your grandma in a little while and she wrote a little note or a piece of paper and shoved it in a little 4″x5″ colored or white envelope. It’s not a big #10 envelope; it’s not an envelope that looks like it came from an institutional company or a marker. It might an off-size “Grandma” envelope or a birthday card envelope, and there might be multiple stamps on it. Like Grandma has some of the old 39-cent stamps, and then postage went up, so she put a 2-cent stamp or a 5-cent stamp or whatever. Maybe they’re a little twisted on the right hand corner, like they were sloppily put on. And of course, hand addressed because it’s personal. So now you’ve got some packaging that’s very, very likely to get opened. And that satisfies the criteria that we were talking about in our original call here.
Then the next nifty thing about tear sheets, as we define them in the marketing world, is the yellow sticky note. So the tear sheet will be folded up so it’s going to fit in this little envelope, and it’s going to be placed in the envelope in a particular way, typically where the headline is facing the back side of the envelope, because people usually take the back flap and they tear it open, and then they open things up. So they’re usually not opening things up from the address side. They’re opening from the reverse side, facing their eyes. And as you pull it out, what we do on these tear sheets, we put a little yellow sticky note. It might be a four or five line message that says — and let’s imagine that your first name’s Joe. It says “Joe, try this. It works. J.” — just the letter “J” and a dot. “J” happens to be the number one most frequently used character in the alphabet for someone’s first name. “J” could be a lot of people; John, James, whatever. And the message is hand addressed on the yellow sticky note to the recipient.
So it’s as if this article from a newspaper or magazine was torn out, packaged up in an envelope personally by a friend, and referred to the prospect because it specifically meets their needs. So imagine if your Grandma was sending you an article about something that she knew that interested you. She was referring you a piece, and it said, “Joe, get fit now! J.” And your grandmother’s name is Josephine. So these people pull these things out of these little granny envelopes that have been hand addressed and have no return address, and they’re wondering, “Oo, I wonder what’s in here.” And they see the yellow sticky note, “Well, geez, it’s from a friend.” And then open it up and it looks like a magazine or a newspaper article, and it’s got compelling copy with a big headline that gets their attention and leads them in and speaks directly to them and about their problems and direct benefits of your products.
You’ve got something — a friend calls it “a cruise missile.” It goes right under the radar and it just explodes in their hands. It’s very, very powerful. A bit more expensive, but the return on that investment is almost always worth it.
What’s the one question I didn’t ask you, or the one thing that you would want to tell personal trainers and fitness professionals about getting into direct response marketing? What’s the one thing we didn’t cover that they should know. Obviously, we didn’t cover a lot of things. But what would you say is the most important, that you just want to drill into their mind?
Well, if you want above average results, unique results, exceptional results in your business, and you want a lifestyle that offers you more freedom and more ways to do the things that you want to do, then you’ve got be unique. You’ve got to be different. You’ve got to differentiate yourself from your marketplace, and have a mechanism by which you can turn your business on and off with a light switch. And effective direct response advertising is that tool for your business, regardless of whether it’s personal training or any other business.
If you’ve got something that can effectively bring in the type of customers or clients — and I typically don’t like to use the word ‘customer’ because it connotates lack of relationship. And when you’ve got a client that represents a big dollar figure, $2500, $5000 over the life of that client, then you want to bring in as many of those people as you can, as effortlessly as you can, and put systems in place in your business to keep those people on board and referring other people just like them, and continue to get repeat business from them.
So I guess what I’m trying to say is if a mediocre business is okay with you, and you’re okay with an average, ordinary lifestyle, making an average income, then do what other people do. But if you want to be extraordinary and get exceptional results in your business, and create and design a business that offers you an exceptional lifestyle, especially one of freedom, then you have to create a way to bring in more business, more volume, with people that transact more frequently for a longer period of time than your competitors. And when you’re able to do all three of those things at the same time — you’ve got more customers, and customers that buy at higher prices, and higher prices more frequently — you’ve just tripled your income, because you’ve applied business dynamics to your whole income model.
And that’s the cat’s meow; that’s nirvana. That’s where every business wants to be, regardless whether it’s personal training or mortgage professionals or whatever. I challenge you to be exceptional; do something different. And if you don’t have the tenacity or the interest in going out there and doing what it takes to learn all this stuff and create it and do it and track it, and none of that interests you, then pay someone. Find someone that’s got the tools and the turnkey system to go out and buy it. The result is the same. You still get that same exceptional lifestyle.
You nailed it on the head.
I appreciate you being with us today. You’ve really given fitness professionals a lot of ideas and a lot of things they can implement into their business right away to help them make a lot more money and have a lot more free time.
Where can people learn more about your mentoring program?
I’m at 1MillionLiquid.com. You can spell that either way, OneMillionLiquid.com – You’ll find me and what I do for mortgage professionals and other people interested in private lending right there on the Internet. Go take a peek, and I’m just thrilled to talk to you today. So I hope that was helpful to all our listeners.
Chris McCombs is Personal Training Business and Marketing specialist